IBIS Macromodel Task Group Meeting date: 10 December 2013 Members (asterisk for those attending): Agilent: Fangyi Rao * Radek Biernacki Altera: David Banas Julia Liu Hazlina Ramly Andrew Joy Consulting: Andy Joy ANSYS: Samuel Mertens Dan Dvorscak Curtis Clark Steve Pytel Luis Armenta Arrow Electronics: Ian Dodd Cadence Design Systems: Terry Jernberg * Ambrish Varma Feras Al-Hawari * Brad Brim Kumar Keshavan Ken Willis Cavium Networks: Johann Nittmann Celsionix: Kellee Crisafulli Cisco Systems: Ashwin Vasudevan Syed Huq Ericsson: Anders Ekholm IBM: Greg Edlund Intel: * Michael Mirmak Maxim Integrated Products: Mahbubul Bari Hassan Rafat Ron Olisar Mentor Graphics: * John Angulo Zhen Mu * Arpad Muranyi Vladimir Dmitriev-Zdorov Micron Technology: * Randy Wolff * Justin Butterfield NetLogic Microsystems: Ryan Couts Nokia-Siemens Networks: Eckhard Lenski QLogic Corp. James Zhou SiSoft: * Walter Katz Todd Westerhoff Doug Burns * Mike LaBonte Snowbush IP: Marcus Van Ierssel ST Micro: Syed Sadeghi Teraspeed Consulting Group: Scott McMorrow * Bob Ross TI: Casey Morrison Alfred Chong Vitesse Semiconductor: Eric Sweetman Xilinx: Mustansir Fanaswalla Ray Anderson The meeting was led by Arpad Muranyi ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Opens: - Arpad: Reminder that we have one more meeting then a two week break. -------------------------- Call for patent disclosure: - None ------------- Review of ARs: - Walter send updated presentation to Mike for posting - Done ------------- New Discussion: Package Modeling: - Walter showed a new Package Modeling presentation. - slide 1: - Walter: I gave a quick review in the open forum meeting last week. - slide 7: - Walter: My recommendation is Yes for #1, Touchstone without circuit wrappers. - Arpad: The question is if we want to take the time to write it up. - Walter recommended Yes for all options under #2. - Walter: #2.1 Identifying I/O ports by Signal_Name is optional. - #2.2 works because having one port for the PDN model should suffice. - Arpad: This is for when a complete pin list is not available? - Walter: It is for simplified low frequency power delivery circuits, for example. - Walter: #2.3 would be to simplify modeling all DQ signals, for example. - Brad: Is #3 two ports? - Walter: It can be any number. - Brad: This begins to allow for arbitrary circuits - where do we stop? - Walter: This probably is the most controversial. - IC vendors may like this capability. - Bob: We already have this capability though model instantiation. - Walter: With 128 DQ or SerDes pins do we want 128 instances in the package model? - John: This is like swathing, which can get nasty when coupling is involved. - Walter: We should get input from IC vendors on how they deliver coupled models. - Bob: For #2.3 Corner Format could be used. - Walter: Typ/Min/Max in IBIS is different from AMI Corner. - Michael M: We should have the ability to use more than 3 corners. - Walter: We need to answer these question to evaluate any syntax. - slide 8: - Walter: Some work will be needed to "include" just a portion of a file. - Arpad: Wouldn't that be up to EDA vendors? - Walter: IC vendors have to know how to make portable models. - Radek: I agree with Arpad that it is an implementation issue. - Tools will be able to find the right subckt. - Walter: Port naming and ordering must be resolved. - Mike L: Will we need something like Supporting_Files? - Walter: No, it is possible to find out all the files that will be needed. - Bob: Does "Model File Name" involve IBIS models or just IBIS-ISS? - Walter: This is for IBIS-ISS and Touchstone only. - Michael M: Can we find out if a Touchstone file has the appropriate ports? - At least with a wrapper that is known. - Walter described TS1 and TS2 differences - Michael M: If we go with unwrapped Touchstone we will have to define ports. - Walter: An S element could have 6, 7, or 12 nodes. - But in all cases it has 6 terminals. - Brad: There are always 7 nodes, the 7th is implicit. - When I have 100+N ports in my data, how to wrap it? - Walter: For uncoupled simulations it can be broken into many small subckts. - It can be advantageous to use sNps directly. - Brad: Yes, but maybe not for the arbitrary case. - Radek: We discussed this for BIRD 144 some time ago. - Unused ports were an issue. - The IBIS-ISS wrapper takes care of that. - Brad: Wrappers would be better than rules. - slide 7: - Walter: This suggests that #2.1.1 would be a No and #2.3.1 would be Sometimes. - Radek: It would be more clear to say No. - Michael M: We would want to have certain parameters with arbitrary corners, not all. - Walter changed some decisions to "take the easy way out". AR: Walter send updated Package Modeling slides to Mike for posting ------------- Next meeting: 17 December 2013 12:00pm PT ------------- IBIS Interconnect SPICE Wish List: 1) Simulator directives